Showing posts with label Estonian. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Estonian. Show all posts

Thursday, January 8, 2015

Challenge 52 in 52: Estonian


Ma mäletan veel, kui tuli mu hinge et jääda See tunne nii suur
samas nüüd Seisan ma teel vaadates südame sisse Seal viliseb tuul

Aga tean, ma tean kõik vöib muuta heaks
Iga uks mis kord sulgub see avaneb taas

Veel sulab jää ja õide puhkeb raagus puu
Iga löpp ei ole muud kui algus uus
On vaja ööd, et päev tooks valguse
Et uus saaks alguse, mis möödund jäägu kaugele
Et uus saaks taas alguse

Kardin avaneb taas on algamas järgmine vaatus Kus tõusta saan maast
sama hing Kuid uus mäng veel ees muudetud saab minu saatus Saab uueks mu tee

Ja ma tean, ma tean kõik vöib muuta heaks
Iga uks, mis kord sulgub see avaneb taas

Veel sulab jää ja õide puhkeb raagus puu
Iga löpp ei ole muud kui algus uus
On vaja ööd, et päev tooks valguse
Et uus saaks alguse, mis möödund jäägu kaugele

Veel sulab jää ja õide puhkeb raagus puu
Iga löpp ei ole muud kui algus uus
On vaja ööd, et päev tooks valguse
Et uus saaks alguse, mis möödund jäägu kaugele
Et uus saaks taas alguse

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Ma mäletan veel, kui tuli mu hinge et jääda see tunne nii suur
- I remember still when my spirit came to stop by that feeling so big
samas nüüd Seisan ma teel vaadates südame sisse
- on the same road now I'm standing looking inside the heart
Seal viliseb tuul
- there is wind blowing

Aga tean, ma tean kõik vöib muuta heaks
- but I know, I know everything can change to good
Iga uks mis kord sulgub see avaneb taas
- every door that closes it opens again
Veel sulab jää ja õide puhkeb raagus puu
- yet melts the ice and to flowers burst the bare tree
Iga löpp ei ole muud kui algus uus
- every end is nothing but a new beginning

On vaja ööd, et päev tooks valguse
- the night ends so that the day would lighten
Et uus saaks alguse, mis möödund jäägu kaugele
- so that the new gets a beginning, where the past is left far away
Et uus saaks taas alguse
- so that the new gets again a beginning

Kardin avaneb taas on algamas järgmine vaatus Kus tõusta saan maast
- the curtain opens again, the next act is beginning when I may get up from the ground
Sama hing kuid uus mäng veel ees muudetud saab minu saatus
- same soul but new play yet may change my fate
Saab uueks mu tee
- makes new my way

Sunday, October 23, 2011

I like this time in blogging...

You know when you start blogging and not many have found your blog...
I feel like I could still change everything, make the posts better, arrange them better, make them more clear and such things. I don't think I will, though, because this is what it is. This is what I have written. I am a bit overwhelming with all the information and jumping from one thing to another...

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I need to get this 52 in 52 in better shape. When it comes to such vigorous challenges, it is better to be better prepared, to have a plan, a structure, everything ready. It is sort of like running a marathon. You better not do it cold turkey.

I am lucky because I'm sick. It gives me a lot of time to study what ever I want.

I am wondering if mind mapping and sentence mining would help me in this... does it speed up learning of languages?

Anki doesn't. I wonder if that is because I decided it won't... I don't think so... They say it's the SRS (space repetition system)  is what makes Anki so good, but I have that with my flashcards.

Okay, this is how I do flashcards

I take a piece of ordinary printer paper and fold it in two and rip, fold in two and rip, over and over again, until I have divided the paper into 16 small pieces. This can be done with anything, my paper guillotine isn't very good, though, so I get different sizes of papers and that is a bit annoying.
I could do only 8 pieces, and just fold them in two, not rip, to have more space for things like sample sentences, pronunciation or other information I think is necessary. I am lazily planning on using this to declination/conjugation.

I write the word - in the form it is in a dictionary - on one side of the paper, flip it over and write the translation in the form that benefits me most on one side. It can be in a language that helps me make the association so that I understand the word, it can be a combination of words, a picture, what ever works. Usually I try to keep them clean and tidy, and just write the dictionary definition of the word or expression.

I write words, expressions, phrases, idioms, what ever. I try to break up the latter into words.
For example "il y a" = il - the subject "it"; y - the adverbial pronoun "there" and a - the third person singular present tense of avoir - "to have"
I would also add flashcards for
the Finnish demonstrative pronouns; "tämä, tuo, se, nämä, nuo, ne"
personal pronouns in the way they are declined, usually following the Finnish "minä, sinä, hän, me, te, he" - in French it would be "je, tu, il/elle/on, nous, vous, ils/ons" (because "on, ons" is a sort of personal pronoun that declines as il and elle. In German the last word on the list would be Sie, because it declines like they.)
and the word pair "here - there", which in Finnish are ordinary cases of words "tämä" and "tuo". Then I would add the declination of "avoir" in "minä, sinä, hän..." in present tense.
I would also add the other such pronouns as the language had them.
So you could end up with a pile of some 15 cards, just with "il y a".


I would like to mark the cards with the language so that I will remember in the future which language it is - because I am not very organized, so I end up having a box of flashcards that all look the same. I usually just throw them away, but that's not a good thing to do, because the flashcards can be used as a dictionary, and they are some sort of measurement of my vocabulary. Of course, when I get to the point where I need to check about a word on every page I won't be using flashcards anymore, so I wouldn't ever end up with like tens of thousands of flashcards. :-D
Mark the language on both sides (because I write the "translation" in Finnish, Swedish, English, French or Germans, and sometimes even other languages.)
I don't usually do this, because it takes too much time and stops the flow if you need to scribble three letters in the lower corner of the card... stupid, huh? :-D

Nothing fancy, weird or amazing so far :-D Not going to come either. It's just that there are actually people who don't know how to use flashcards. So, tallyho!

I end up with a pile of about 50-200 flashcards. This is how I use them:

I have this pile of flashcards (or papers) in a small pouch in my pocket or bag all the time. Every time I get time, like when waiting for a bus or train, sitting in the bus or train, waiting in slow lines, you know, every moment you can't do anything but wait, I get the pouch up and start going through the cards.

I keep the cards in my hand, and read one side. I try to remember, guess, know, what on the other side. If I am 100% certain, if I was correct, I put the card between my index and middle finger of the same hand that's holding the cards. If I was not, I put it last in the pile. I go through the cards, one by one, and end up with two piles.
(If I am interrupted, I put the cards in my pouch cross-wise, so that they won't get mixed. The pouch is just big enough to have the cards in both directions.)
When I'm done, I put the pile I knew back in the pouch, and repeat this with the other pile, as many times as necessary for me to know the words. (This is where the SRS comes in to play. I get the repetition within the exercise, and the harder the word, the more repetition I get. Simple.)

When there's only about 10 cards in the pile, I start using mnemonic techniques actively.

Before that I was using them unconsciously.
For example; don't change the order of the cards... your mind doesn't mind what it uses to hang the memory on. It doesn't matter that you hang on the word "chapeau" on "chat", because those two followed each other in your flashcard pile. At this moment it's okay to remember cat in hat and both words when you need only one of them. You will probably do it the rest of your life, but believe me, when you actually KNOW the words, it won't slow you down, as some people are saying. It is okay to remember the Albanian word for "day before yesterday" (pardje) together with yesterday (dje), and "day after tomorrow" (pasnesër) with "tomorrow" (nesër). (You will also learn "par" - before, "pas" - after).
(Today is 'sot' - soot in Swedish, fool in both English and French... not to be mixed with sod, which is a little different kind of an idiot, except in Breton. ;-) In Finnish "war" is "sota, in Estonian "sõda", and "sota" in Spanish is supposed to be the jack of cards (or 'insolent woman') coming from the same word as French 'sous' and Italian 'sotto' - sub, below, under... Hmm... Black soldier playing Black Jack with a chimney sweep... "I can't today, I'm having a Black Jack night" (and I wrote that 'knight' LOL)
You see how my mind works?
I also hang the words 'mungojnë' (missing, absent) to St. Mungo's hospital from Harry Potter, and 'mundohem' (try, toil, agonize) to Mundo Cani dog from the Book of the Dun Cow.

When I remember all the cards, I go through the whole pile a couple more times. There will be a couple of words I have forgotten, but that's just "SRS" :-D

Then I turn the pile around and do the same, this time from start language to target language.

After that I repeat the whole procedure a couple of days, then once a week, then perhaps once a month.

Now, learning vocabulary is not the end in itself. Words are tools, and collecting tools just to have them in a toolbox and never use them, is rather stupid, even for an Aspie like me.
You see, words are living creatures, and you feed them by using them. If you don't feed them they die. You will forget them. Of course it might be easier to relearn something you have forgotten than something you have never known, but you have to work on it anyway. If you use them, you will remember them without any difficulties and be able to use to hang more memories on... So even if you "just" collect words, use them, or you will lose them... and what is a collector with an empty collection?

So I haven't been just working with Estonian this week. (I haven't been working much with Estonian either...)
I have been thinking about Albanian as well. Repeating numbers, making some sentences, looking at some recipes and so on.

I have noticed that I need to look up the basic word; infinitive of the verb or nominative of the noun. I need to look at the word families. I really need to pick the idioms and phrases in pieces. I need to know Estonian "palun" (please, you're welcome) means "I beg". I need to understand the language to be able to learn it.
"Interestingly, palun itself has grammaticalized into a pragmatic particle from a verb form 'I beg' and it also occurs as a question preface, as in palun kuhu te elistate 'please/excuse me, where are you calling?'"
- Ritva Laury, Ryoko Suzuki; Subordination in conversation: A Cross-Linguistic Perspective

Repeating phrases, learning things by heart like your line in a play, seeing language studies like acting works for some people, and really wonderfully. (There is a Finnish actor, Heikki Kinnunen, who starred a Russian language course for Finnish television. He said he doesn't know a word of Russian, he just learned his lines by heart and repeated them. I don't think that's quite true... you can't much do things like that without SOMETHING fastening. But - I believe that can be very useful. I do speak with Scottish accent after watching Gargoyles :-D

BTW, this woman is "not black". She's Hispanic and speaks Spanish... they say. Not only blind, but deaf and dumb too, those people :-)
just a note here... This is Leila Lopes, she is Angolan, and her skin color is obvious to anyone with eyes. Her parents might have been Cuban, but there are black people in Cuba as well. On the video she speaks Portuguese, not Spanish.

Friday, October 21, 2011

Estonian and Finnish cases

The noun cases are approximately the same, except that

Estonian has terminative, which in Finnish is expressed with non-suffix postposition
The Estonian comitative is not exactly the same as the Finnish comitative, and that makes me a bit confused...

Terminative is a case, with suffix replacing the preposition "until"
Comitative is a case, with suffix replacing the preposition "with"
In Finnish comitative is "with" + possessive suffix, and it's always in plural form, even when used as singular.

ikä - iga
iät - ead
iän - iga, ea
ikien - igade
ikää - iga, igat
ikiä - igasid
iässä - eas (igas)
iissä - igades
iästä - east (igast)
iistä - igadest
ikään - easse (igasse, ikka)
ikiin - igadesse
iällä - eal (igal)
iillä - igadel
iältä - ealt (igalt)
iiltä - igadelt
iälle - eale (igale)
iille - igadele
iäksi - eaks (igaks)
ijiksi - igadeks
ikään asti - eani (igani)
ikiin asti - igadeni
ikänä - eana (igana)
ikinä - igadena
iättä - eata (igata)
iittä - igadeta
(iän kaa) - eaga
ikineen - igadega

Anyway, I have put a couple of Estonian texts in "learning with texts" and added the words to Anki. I like LWT, but Anki... nope. I prefer my flashcards in paper.

Now, I am wondering if it is time to have folded flashcards... have "iga" (age) on one side, age (or ikä) on the other and that list above inside the folded card...
And also do the same with verbs...

Another thing is that I have problems with prepositions. Now, a lot of people have found the cases easier to learn if they are considered as just prepositions, but postpositions and written as one word. I wonder if seeing prepositions as case suffixes, but just written apart and before the word...
(Nope, doesn't work like that. I tried it out with my husband who speaks Danish, Swedish and English. You just have to learn the prepositions by ear. Dang!)

Thursday, October 20, 2011

Ok, so I have Asperger's... sue me

I realized that my ability to "suck in" vocabulary might not be something everyone has. Polyglottally seemed to be quite happy with "21 items"... 21? (It's also extremely English list. Our English teachers were using hours just to explain the difference of "excuse me", "I'm sorry" and "pardon". In Finnish? "anteeksi". You really cannot translate sentences like that. But what ever.) Take the Swadesh list in stead. The longer one. (Okay, then, take Omniglot's list too... Or never mind. Take any list of phrases that you feel is enough. After all, who am I to tell you what you should do, what you can manage in a week and so on.)

Learn the numbers - all of them. Come on! In most languages that means learning something like ten words. TEN WORDS!!! (Even if they'd use more words, these words are logically related and easy to learn, like in French: 5 cinq (sank) - 15 quinze (cans) - 50 cinquante (sank-aunt)
In Estonian you'll know all the numbers to 1.000.000 by knowing 15 words. (üks, kaks, kolm, neli, viis, kuus, seitse, kaheksa, üheksa, kymme, teist, kümmend, sada, tuhat and miljon)
It's REALLY easy, and a great way of learning the correct pronunciation.

So - Estonian - spoken by about a million people mainly in Estonia or by Estonian people living outside Estonia or their descendants. A surprisingly big amount of Finns have chosen to learn Estonian as well, and it does have some use in Finland, being very closely related.
Culture? What does that even mean? Yes, they write books, poems, newspapers and songs in Estonian, and practically anything else you can think of. It's used in calligraphy, in public signs, advertisements and... I mean. What?
Of course there's formal and informal language, of course there are some other stuff like that, but it's pretty much irrelevant when it comes to learning to know a language.
I'm also quite uninterested in the political significance of the language.
Who cares about whether EU or UN operates in Estonian, or what is the ISO code for it. It doesn't say anything about the language.
It's more interesting to know that Estonian is not Indo-European language, it's closest relative is Finnish, but it's also related to Sami and Hungarian, and the dozens of tiny Finno-Ugric languages that are being spoken (or killed) in Russia.
Estonian is a SVO language, no gender, some 14 cases, uses postpositional suffixes, bla bla bla. Very much like Finnish.
They use Latin alphabet.
Actually, 101 languages gives just enough information about... well... 101 languages :-D Estonian is there.

Õun on punane.
See on Johni õun.
Ma annan õuna Johnile.
Me anname õuna talle.
Ta annab selle Johnile. (She and he is the same word - e, perhaps?)
Ma pean selle talle andma.
Ma tahan selle talle anda.

Tuesday, October 18, 2011

More about Estonian

The Estonian Language Blog

Learn Estonian

Estonian Swadesh list

Foreign Language Flashcards: Estonian

Eesti keele süntesaator
Estonian cooljugator

Digital dialects: Estonian

Some internet games to help learn Estonian. Mostly for kids, but - could be fun for adults too.
- learn Estonian words
- transparent language has a nice Estonian quizz

Estonian radio 
(Here's Susanna Zaraysky about the benefits of hearing the language you're studying, even when you're not actively listening.)

They say "For a full list of phrases and their phonetics, please visit: www.mylanguages.org/phrases.php", but that's not right. Nice list, but not this list. The list read on this video is as follows:

Hi! - Tere!
How are you? (polite) - Kuidas läheb?
I'm fine, and you? - Hästi. Ja sul?
I'm fine. Thanks.  Hästi, aitäh küsimast!
Good morning! - Tere hommikust!
Good evening! - Tere õhtust!
What's your name? - mis su nimi on?
My name is adrian - mu nimi on adrian
nice to meet you - meeldiv kohtuta
Do you speak English? - Kas sa räägid inglise keelt?
Just a little - Natukene
I'm from America - Ma olen Amerikast pärit
Can I practice with you? - Kas ma võin sinuga harjutada?
can you repeat please? Kas sa võiksid korrata?
I don't understand. - Ma ei saa aru.
I love you. - Ma armastan sind.
How much is this? - Kui palju see maksab?
What is this - Mis se on
Can I help you? Kas ma saan sind aidata?
can you help me? Kas sa saad mind aidata?
i feel sick - Ma tunnen end halvasti
I need a doctor. - Ma vajan arsti.
excuse me - vabandage
Excuse me, sorry - Vabandust.
thank you - aitäh
good bye - Nägemist

One - Üks
Two - Kaks
Three - Kolm
Four - Neli
Five - Viis
Six - Kuus
Seven - Seitse
Eight - Kaheksa
Nine - Üheksa
Ten - Kümme

yes - jah
no - ei
Good - Hea
Bad - Halb
Here - Siin
There - Seal
cheap odav
expensive kallis

black - must
white - valge
blue - sinine
green - roheline
red - punane

Language 2; Estonian

I visited my family this weekend, so the end of the week I sort of crashed. I didn't learn as much as I would have wanted to, not did I finish the week as I would have wanted to. I would have wanted to be able to read Albanian, and I believe one can learn to read a language adequately in a week, from scratch. After all, it's not "from scratch" with any language - we already know one language.

Yesterday some stupid program/virus/something made the internet inaccessible, so I'm late with my Estonian. :-(

I am also pretty sour because I have lost a website. There used to be a site with all these interesting sayings and words in a lot of langugages. A LOT of languages. That would have made my job with the vocabulary flash cards easier. I'm not talking about Jennifer's wonderful work, no. This was very simple with practically only a huge table with related languages side by side... I had the link to that a year ago. Now I can't find it.
Well, well... welcome to the internet.

Now, back to my family - when I was waiting for the buss and then train, I was listening to the different languages used around me. There was some Slavic language, I assume Serbo-Croatian, as we got a lot of refugees from the Bosnian war. There was a lot of Arabic and a little Aramaic (Suryoyo/Syriac). There was a little Spanish. Now, if I was smart, I'd learn these languages.
But - alas, I'm not smart. I have my list, and it is really hard for me to change my mind about such things, so I will study Estonian this week, Hungarian the next and North Sami on week 44. I have designed the list so that I study one language group at a time, and I prepared for this week as I visited the library last week, with Estonian in mind...
It's only in the week 45 I can adjust the list and put the Syriac and Arabic in, and continue with Hebrew and Maltese. Related languages, you see.

So - don't be as stubborn as I am. It is never too late to change your mind, and deciding to do something different is not a bad thing.
You are not "a quitter", you are an intelligent, sensible and flexible person, able to change your decisions as you have learned something you didn't know when you first made the decision. It's like with Edison. He didn't fail 90 times, he found out 90 ways the idea didn't work. It would be stupid to call him a quitter because he didn't stubbornly try to force impractical and stupid ways to work, but left them to pursue new ways.
Really, life is too short to do things just because you made an uneducated decision in your past.
It is okay to divorce an abusive spouse, it is okay to stop reading a bad book, it is okay to change your toothpaste to something you actually like and that you actually think works, it is okay to eat meat and stop eating meat too.
Be kind to yourself. Life is too short to do things just because you think you ought to.
Don't study languages because you think you should, but because you love them, or someone whose mothertongue that language is, or something made in that language, or what ever. Polyglots aren't better people than anyone else, we just know more languages.

Back to Estonian:

I'm still not okay with the Estonians using "our" national enthem. It is, to me, nothing but the Finnish national enthem. I know it's stupid and mean and intolerant, but - I am very nationalist in that way.
Nevertheless, that Estonian girl who made the video has made a very good job with explaining the letters and giving examples of words in Estonian where the letters are being used.

Now, again, it seems like I made a mistake - again. There's enough Finnish material online... Estonian? Not so much... (Sure, there are about 5 times more Finns than Estonians around, but

Estonian language course in Scribt 
UniLang Estonian

Eesti Viki

Forvo: Eesti

Vepsä sanakirja

Äripäev Estonian newspaper online